Coach Nick Saban on Advocating for Athletic Mental Health Care
About the episode
On this episode, Walt is joined by Nick Saban, Head Coach for the University of Alabama Football Team. Coach Saban has won seven national championships, which is the most in college football history. Of those seven titles, he has won six at Alabama since he took the helm there in 2007 and eight SEC championships. He has coached four Heisman Trophy winners and hundreds of players who have gone on to star in the NFL. Aside from all those accolades, Coach Saban has long been an advocate for the mental health of athletes. In this episode, he discusses how crucial it is to recognize the connection between an athlete’s physical ability and their mental approach. Coach Saban also talks about individualized approaches to helping athletes based on their specific needs, finding the right people to help athletes be the best version of themselves, and the importance of being goal oriented and self-disciplined.
Episode transcript
Welcome to Athletes OnBalance, where we talk to athletes, coaches and experts about mental health and sports. This is a stigma-free zone for inner thoughts and outer conversations. We're helping athletes and anyone with mental health challenges perform at their best on and off the field.
Hi, everyone. Welcome to Athletes OnBalance. I'm your host Walt Norley, founder and CEO of OnBalance Health. Today, I'm joined by Nick Saban, head football coach at the University of Alabama. Nick stands alone as the only coach in college football history to win seven national championships, six of those with the Crimson Tide, eight SEC championships, and he's a nine-time recipient as National Coach of the Year. He's coached four Heisman Trophy winners and hundreds of players who have gone on to enjoy successful careers throughout the NFL. Collegiately, and previously, Nick was the head coach at Toledo University, Michigan State, and LSU. Nick also spent eight seasons in the NFL, including two seasons as the head coach of the Miami Dolphins. Nick’s a graduate of Kent State University and played defensive back for the Golden Flashes. Aside from all this significant success as a coach, he’s also responsible for making Alabama the gold standard in mental health care for student athletes within the NCAA. This is actually a cause that’s near to myself, as I've managed a bipolar disorder through my four-decade business career, and perhaps even in my playing days as a quarterback at Ohio State and Georgia. For full disclosure, Nick and I go back 40-plus years when he recruited me to play at Ohio State. Nick became a friend with my family, including my mom, my dad, my sisters Pam and Missy, and my brother Todd who played quarterback at Syracuse. Coach Saban, thanks so much for joining me today.
Glad to be here, Walt. Good to see you again.
When did you realize that you needed to place an emphasis on the mental health side of the student athlete as much as the physical health?
Well I think it started early on for me. Even when I was in graduate school, I was interested in different kinds of psychology of sport. It's what I got a master's degree in, things like achievement, motivation, high anxiety, and how this affected performance. So that started an interest, even in moral development, all those types of things and how they can impact your ability to perform at whatever you choose to do. So when I was an assistant coach, I didn't have a lot of chances to implement it other than having great relationships with players and trying to help them the best I could. But then when I became a head coach at Michigan State, I got to meet a lot of people, Dr. Rosen, in particular, who's worked with me for 30 years now, probably. That really gave me a much better understanding of the importance of how you can't really separate somebody's physical ability from their mental approach to what they're doing. Those two things go hand-in-hand. Everybody is not made the same way so sometimes it takes a little different approach for various kinds of guys. That's one of the things that I think has helped us be successful through the years. We've been able to take the individual and coach them and teach them in a way that best serves them and where they needed help in some area, mentally, whether it was something as simple as a learning disability or something beyond that, we were able to address those things and put them in a better situation to have a chance to be successful.
So, if you go to modern-day with your history at these different schools and throughout your coaching career tenure, what are the most prominent issues you’ve seen with today’s student athletes compared to 10, 15, 20 years ago?
First of all, we uncover a lot more mental situations. Some of them have a greater effect and impact. Something as simple as doing sleep studies on guys and understanding that guys have sleep apnea and how that affects their ability to succeed in school and how it affects their ability to focus. I mean, obsessive compulsive behavior, how do you approach a guy that has that kind of behavior versus a guy that's not a self-starter, versus a guy who has personality disorders who creates behavioral issues for himself that sometimes he doesn't realize cause and effect and how that can impact his future. So identify these things early on in players and help them develop some kind of protocol for them to be able to manage their circumstances and understand who they are. Anger management is something that comes up, oftentimes. But I think the two things that are most prominent now is players’ understanding of cause and effect, which is a pretty general deal, but then also, I think, being able to manage adversity. I don't think, maybe, people grow up in this day and age, and I'm not saying this is a bad thing, having to overcome adversity and adverse circumstances when adverse circumstances are created. But in a competitive sport, or life is competitive, you have to be able to overcome failings and understand what it takes to do that and how it's important to keep some kind of a positive outlook on things that you can do to solve problems and not allow these things to put you in a depressed state. But I do think that's something that, maybe, is a little more apparent in modern-day athletes than what it used to be 10-15 years ago.
Well, I'm sure that technology, cell phones, social media have all had a strong influence on that, compared to 15-20 years ago. Do you recall a former player that might stand out to you that had a successful mental health outcome after having challenging times?
Oh, yeah. I mean, we just had a player graduate here at Jimmy John's, who was in the program, probably 15 years ago. He had lots of issues, lots of mental health issues, we tried to help him in various ways, he went through some very low points in his life, but he kept coming back and showed a tremendous amount of perseverance to address issues and problems that he had. He had his life turned around, just graduated from school, and I'm sure will have a better chance to be successful because of it. But there's been a huge number of players that just, athletically, were not able to perform, because of some, I'm going to call it a mental block, preventing them from being the best version of themselves. Whether it was a lack of confidence, not wanting to disappoint other people, or not seeing themselves in a way that would actually allow them to sustain success or be successful because they just had this negative trigger that always held them back and created a lot of frustration for them and a lot of anxiety for them. Those things affect performance in a negative way. So there have been a lot of guys that have learned how to do that, they went on to be successful and have successful careers, whether it was in football, in the NFL, or in other things. I think that's one of the most important things that we need to do as coaches. We all can recall someone who was a great mentor for us that impacted our life growing up, whether it was family, or some other teacher, person, or coach. That's one of the things that I've always tried to do. I had great mentors, and I want to create the leadership to be somebody that these guys can emulate by setting a good example, but also caring enough about the issues that they have to try to put people in a place that can actually be expert enough to help them understand the consequences of what they do in a positive way as well as a negative way.
Well, you've spoken to me about it, and I know this is something that is part of your overall philosophy in developing the student athlete and the football players that come into the Alabama program. The development combination of an athlete and a person, and I assume there is an intersection here, to your point earlier, between mental health development and athletic performance.
Of course, I think it's huge. Now, one of the things that I try to do with the players, more specifically for football, is that I really want them to be goal-oriented. I think that gives you a sense of purpose when you have something that you want to accomplish or something that you want to do. This is not just out athletically, this is personally and academically as well as athletically. But then, I always ask players, "Why did you come to Alabama? What do you want to accomplish here?" And they'll say, "Well, I want to graduate and play in the NFL someday." My next question is, "What does that entail? Do you understand what that entails?" So, I'm trying to get them to understand the process, to be process-oriented, and then move over here and say, "Okay, how do I have to edit my behavior so I can do these things that I need to do to accomplish the goals that I have?" But then one of the areas that I don't even think players understand sometimes is you have to have the discipline to execute it every day, regardless of what it is. So I'm trying to make guys be able to self-assess. So I ask them, "Why did you come? Do you know what that entails?" And then I'll ask them, in another conversation down the road after they've been here for a while, "Do you feel good about where you are and the goals that you want to accomplish?" And if they say yes, I will say, "Well, why do you think that is?" Again, trying to get them to self-assess. And if they say no, I say, "Why do you think that is?" So instead of me telling them, I want them to tell me, to create self-awareness, which I think can carry over in a lot of things that they do. But this whole concept of discipline is something that, I think, is important in athletics, but I think it's important in life because doing what you're supposed to do when you're supposed to do it the way it's supposed to get done, that's important, but self-discipline -- we make hundreds of decisions every day that really come down to two questions. If there's something I know I'm supposed to do that I really don't want to do, can you make yourself do it? And over here, there's something you know you're not supposed to do, but you want to do it. Can you keep yourself from it? Well, if you can make those choices and decisions correctly on a day-to-day basis, and that starts when the alarm clock goes off in the morning, and you start making those decisions, then, I think that's going to help you have a chance to be more successful in executing a plan to actually have a chance to accomplish the goals that you have. So this whole concept of self-awareness, I think, is something that is very important to players, because they realize some of their shortcomings sometimes, and then it makes them more conscious of wanting to do something about it, whether it's seek counseling, talk to some of the psychiatry people that we have here to give them a little better mental disposition on how they need to go about some of the things they do to overcome some of the obstacles that they create for themselves. And I think we all do it, just to a different degree. How we manage those things, I think, is really important to be able to be positive and keep looking forward, not backward, in terms of how you go about making progress toward accomplishment.
You know, everything you just mentioned to me is that intersection between mental health, behavioral health and discipline that leads to lifetime benefits, but, obviously, I would assume performance out on the playing field as well. You mentioned a little bit earlier, mentors. You've inspired countless people, players, former players, coaches, your organizational stakeholder group, and I would say you’ve certainly inspired me. Who has been most inspirational to you in your journey?
First of all, I had really good parents growing up. They instilled some really good values, I think, that were helpful, whether it was work ethic, having compassion for other people, how you treat other people, pride in performance, doing things at a high level, being a perfectionist in a way without creating this anxiety or creating a mental block and not being able to take any risk or be risk-aversive when you need to. So I had really good parents but I also had some really good coaches. My high school coach was great. Don James was my college coach. Coach James had a similar approach to athletics, which gives you an opportunity to have a chance to do all these things but it's usually something we all love to do. Like you were a quarterback, you loved to play that position, you loved to throw the ball, I played that position, I played defensive back, so you have a chance to set goals for what you want to do. You have a chance to have pride in performance, understand the importance of discipline to be able to execute and do your job, and be accountable to your teammates and other people. So many things that you can learn in athletics, but Coach James took the approach that these opportunities in athletics led you to be able to create the same values that would help you be successful in life, which has always kind of been my approach with players, but I kind of learned that from him. And then, I've just been around a lot of really good people. I mean, some people you learn that, "Man, this is a really good thing to be like this person." Wayne Huizenga, the owner of the Dolphins when I was the coach, was a fabulous person, had great character, and had great compassion for other people, even though he had self-made wealth, but never lost his identity of who he was and how he treated others. There were some people, I won't mention any names, that you actually learn that I don't really think I want to be like that, I don't think that's a good thing. Whether it's being arrogant, or totally self-absorbed and doing things that actually help you and hurt others. So I've just had the opportunity to be around some really good people and learn something positive from. George Perlis was a great people person, Bill Belichick was extremely well-organized and made you define characteristics that you could look for to get the right kind of people around you. But then how do you sort of help them develop as well? I've been very fortunate to be around so many good people, but probably Dr. Rosen, who, I think, hates me to mention his name, who's a psychiatrist at Michigan State, clinical psychiatry, there has been somebody I've worked with for a long time. And when it comes to understanding human behavior, I've never encountered anybody that has greater expertise. That's been very helpful to me, learning from him to understand how other people may function in a more positive way.
You know, to that thread, do you still feel like you continue to evolve and get educated on human behavior, and the mental health elements out there today, that are maybe new to today's generation?
I don't think there's any question about that. I'm learning all the time. I'm learning about football all the time. I'm learning about people all the time. I'm learning about human behavior all the time. And I think we live in a rapidly changing world. You mentioned social media, which, to me, creates a huge, I don't want to say it's a distraction, but when you get involved in that, and you're worried about what everybody else thinks, that can affect you in a positive way or a negative way. And sometimes, it's really pretty insignificant information that you're allowing to affect your day-to-day life. I've never gone down that rat hole, but I call it rat poison.
I've seen you. I've seen you on the podium saying it.
What other people think and what they say, it can affect you even if you're having success. You don't deal with stress very well, you get complacent, and complacency creates a blatant disregard for doing what's right. Next thing you know, you're not doing what's right, so you're creating bad habits. Those habits start showing up in your performance, and you get frustrated. So you're in this unsuccessful path of how you're managing issues. And it all got created by what somebody else thought that really shouldn't have any impact on what you're doing, how you feel about yourself, and how you go about whatever it is you're trying to accomplish.
Well, Coach, I appreciate your time in speaking with me today, and I also very much appreciate your insight on this very important topic. I thank you for joining, and I actually thank you, for everything you're doing with these student athletes and their growth as people, as well as athletes. I believe what you’re doing benefits these people for the rest of their lives, and has a lifelong impact.
Well, I appreciate you saying that, Walt. I do think that creating an organization like you have based on your own personal experience, this is something that I think in recent times, people have become more aware of. But I do think continuing this awareness that we all developed programs that will be helpful to helping others is really, really important, I think, in whatever their issues are, and trying to get to more people that think differently and learn differently, whatever it might be. I think we've gone through, back when I played, you did whatever the coach said, regardless of what he said, to a time when you better have a good reason why you're doing whatever it is you're doing. So players understand how it can impact them. But I also think they need to have an understanding of how mental health can impact them as well. And I think your organization creating awareness is really something that can be significant for all of us.
You know, coach, I'm a believer, having been through this myself, friends, family, more modern day, that if you can create greater awareness and reduce, ideally, eliminate, the stigma associated with it, I think people are going to come out and get care earlier. And if they get care earlier, I think they have the ability to recover sooner. I think the stigma has been lessened a little bit with people talking about it, especially during the pandemic times. But the stigma is still there, and maybe it’s perceptional for me but most athletes are very competitive, typically, type A personalities, perceived as very strong, strong-minded, strong physically, and I think it's pretty hard for people from that mentality to come forward and say that they have some kind of weakness. And yet, they don't have a problem getting treatment early when it’s hypothetically their knee.
Well, I think you hit on something there. It's just part of human beings that we don't want anybody to think we have anything wrong with us, nor that what we're responsible for is maybe not going right. I learned this. And the best analogy I can give is, the largest Mercedes plant in the world is right out here in Tuscaloosa. And I've visited that plant many times, and they have a clothesline that runs through the assembly line. And for quality control reasons, that clothesline's purpose is if there's something that you're doing on that line, to that car, that's not perfect, the screw doesn't fit right, the part doesn't fit right, whatever it is, they want you to pull the clothesline, stop the line, and have the engineers come out and fix it so that they don't make a whole bunch of cars that are not quite right. I said, "Oh, that's interesting. I think that's a great quality control concept." I said, "What is the biggest issue?" They said, "Getting people to pull the cord. Nobody wants anybody to think that what they're responsible for is not going exactly right." So this goes right along the lines of the stigma that you talk about of people not wanting to reveal an issue that is very treatable and that could be very helpful to their future. But it's part of the human condition that, hopefully, by awareness, we can all help people overcome that.
Coach, it's been a pleasure again speaking with you. I appreciate your great insight on this important topic. Thanks so much for joining me and thank you again for all you're doing to help student athletes get back to optimal mental health for competition as well as the classroom. And as they say in 'Bama Nation, Roll Tide. Finally, thank you to our listeners for tuning in. Stay tuned for more episodes coming shortly. Take care, everyone. I'm Walt Norley, and this is Athletes OnBalance.
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